The ‘Rapture’, Pre-trib or Post-trib?

This is perhaps one of the most controversial and debated topics in Christendom.

One may ask, what difference does it really make?

That’s a fair question. Practically speaking, in terms of doctrine, it shouldn’t necessarily be a divisive issue. And on the surface it really doesn’t seem like it would make a difference what one believes about the timing of the rapture.

Before we begin let’s note, God has given us a “more sure word of prophecy” (2 Peter 1:19), and commands we “study to show ourselves approved” (2 Timothy 2:15).

Now, without getting to verbose, the central issue is essentially as follows. Jesus said that we would be able to discern when we were in the season of the final days (Matthew 24), most Christians agree that we are there. Therefore we need to know for sure whether or not we’re going to be raptured out of here before things get real ugly, so that we can be spiritually prepared and not caught of guard. No doubt many a heart would faint and faith fail, if we, as His Church,  believed we were going to be “raptured” out before the great tribulation, but when push came to shove, all the sudden Christians are being beheaded and tortured, etc. As it’s written without faith its impossible to please him (Hebrews 11:6), and if Christians were so deceived, and then, say, in a situation where they were given the ultimatum to either renounce Christ or die, they would most certainly be more prone to do so, thinking that Jesus must not be real as he didn’t rapture them out like they were taught and believed.

On to our study

The first point to realize is that while the Bible does make clear that at some point believers will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord (1 Thessalonians 4:17), the word “rapture” (which comes from the Latin “raptura”, meaning to seize by force), never occurs in the Bible.

There really is no reason for there to be so much confusion over this issue, as in taking all the scriptures into account within context of the whole, there is only one Biblical stance which can be arrived at. While this most simply may be resolved by proving that according to the scriptures,  the “rapture” doesn’t occur until the 2nd coming of Christ, which doesn’t occur until after the great tribulation, I will proceed to provide a very thorough exposition, which will elaborate on the aforementioned, as well as several additional points of consideration based on the scriptures, using the writing of an anonymous user that I found posted at www.godlikeproductions.com.

(which I have taken liberty to make formatting changes to, for clarity sake, as well as spelling corrections; but the overall content has been preserved).

It reads as follows:

This nails it. I was a pre tribber for 35 years before i read this. I could not refute it. I was one of the RARE pre tribbers who had the courage to read it. Most pre tribber REFUSE to look past the first verse or two.

But if you are a pre tribber and think you have what it takes to debunk it i dare you to read the entire thing.I DARE YOU.

ONLY reply to this AFTER you have read it TWICE. I challenge one and all (Pre tribbers)to PROVE THIS POST WRONG! Scriptures that prove the post trib rapture:

The first thing I will say is to prove the post trib rapture you only need to show two things in scripture (although I will do much more than that in this post) #1 that the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation, and #2 that the rapture is at the 2nd coming. (side note: the resurrection of the just is also at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ yet before the rapture this is important to know as we move on)
#1) The 2nd coming is after the tribulation

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And (THEN)he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

There is no mistaking, the meaning of this verse, nor can you mistake when it will take place. The coming of the Son of man is immediately after the tribulation of those day. Just to show that this is the Great Tribulation and just one tribulation of many lets start the text at verse 21 and read through verse 31.

Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

(Wouldn’t that kind of be hard to do if there were a pre-trib rapture as the ELECT wouldn’t be around?)

25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be. (Yeah..REAL secret aint it??…NOT)
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(Not a very secret rapture eh?)

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no doubt that this is referring to The Great Tribulation and not just a tribulation. We also see that it is after the tribulation that Jesus returns. We also see that there is a gathering together of the elect at this point. Some argue that they are gathered from Heaven and not from Earth because they were raptured seven years earlier before the tribulation started.

So I will now show in Mark 13:24-27, the sister scripture to Matthew 24:29-31 that they not only gathered from Heaven, but from Heaven and Earth.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

So we see that Jesus gathers the elect from Heaven and Earth at the end of the tribulation from Heaven” the dead in Christ” from Earth ” those that are still living”. We also see that this is the Great Tribulation not a tribulation as verse 19 shows:

Mark 13:19 For in those day there shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

We can make the case from these scriptures that the resurrection of the just, and the rapture is after the tribulation. However that is not the point I am using them to make. The point is the second coming of Christ is after the Great Tribulation, and biblically you can clearly see that this is the case. Now I will show you that the rapture is at this post trib second coming.
#2) The rapture is at the 2nd coming of Christ (which per point 1 is post trib.)

1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:(THE RESSURECTION OF THE JUST!)
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

According to Strong’s Concordance the underlying Greek for prevent in verse 15 means “to be beforehand that is anticipate or precede“. Websters 1828 Dictionary‘s first listed definition for the word ‘prevent’ is “To go before; to precede.”

There are two main things I would like you to notice about this verse. First ….that the dead in Christ rise first. This is important because, there will be scripture use later that speaks of the resurrection of the just happening at the second coming, and we need to realize that the living will not precede the dead but will be caught up after them. So if the resurrection of the just is post trib then the rapture would be as well. Secondly I will give you the timing of this event that all agree is the rapture.

Verse 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them which are asleep.

The rapture takes place at the coming of the Lord, which we have already shown is after the tribulation. I could stop right now this is all the proof we need, but I have more. By the way, some thing for you to notice if a pretrib teacher ever teaches on the rapture they will skip verse 15 and quote verse 16 and 17 only. Is this open deception or an over sight? I will let you decide.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward that they are Christ’s at his coming.

We will all be resurrected and there will be an order. Jesus is first, that has already happen, and then those that are Christ’s, those that have been saved (Christians) at His coming. There is no mention of a resurrection of the righteous between Jesus’ resurrection and his second coming. As a matter of fact it says that those that belong to Christ will be resurrected at the post trib second coming. We saw in 1st Thessalonians that the dead are raised before the living are raptured. So if the resurrection of the dead in Christ is at the post trib second coming then the rapture has to be as well.

2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, bretheren. by the coming of the Lord and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled in spirit, nor by word, nor by letter from us, and the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In verse 1 Paul is speaking of two events. the coming of the Lord or ” The second coming” and the gathering together unto him or ” the resurrection of the just and or rapture”. In verse 3 we see that Paul says these two event happen on a singular day ”That day”. Also in verse 3 Paul writes that that day could not happen until after the falling away takes place and the anti christ is revealed. Some pretrib preachers go as far as to say the falling away is the rapture, teaching that the rapture must come before the second coming. However the greek word for falling away is ”apostasia”, which literally means a turning from the truth. So the church itself will turn from the truth (Seems the pre trib rapture doctrine is PROOF of this)and then the anti christ will be revealed and then (AND ONLY THEN)the rapture can take place, not before. This passage excludes the pretrib view because we know that the anti christ will not be revealed before the tribulation starts but AFTER!!!. Further more it proves the post trib view because it declares that the second coming and the rapture take place on the same day. These two events are not seven years apart, not three and a half years apart, not one year, one month or one day apart. They occur on the same exact day.

1st John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

When does Christ appear? At his post trib second coming. When shall we be like him? When we receive our heavenly bodies, which is at the resurrection of the just and or the rapture. So this verse actually says that we will be resurrected and or raptured to receive our heavenly immortal bodies at the post trib second coming.
I think the scriptural evidence of a post trib rapture that I have presented so far is overwhelming.

BUT THERE IS MUCH MUCH MORE!!!!

Real quickly I will give three verses that state that we must endure until the very end to be saved: Matthew 24:12-13, Mark 13:13, and Revelation 2:26.
Matthew 24:12-13
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

(NOTICE IT DIDNT SAY HE WHO ENDURES TO THE START..OR THE MIDDLE..BUT THE END)

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Both of these passages say he that endures unto the end, shall be saved. Some teach that this means you must keep your faith until your death to get to heaven. Actually if you will notice, both of these passage are in chapters that are specifically explaining the events of the tribulation.

In Matthew it says that iniquity will abound. In Mark it says we will be hated by all men for Christ’s name sake. What these verses are telling us is that only those that do not turn from Christ during the tribulation will be saved. Those of us that endure until the very end shall be saved.

Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keeps my works until the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

NOTICE THIS…

It is only those that keep God’s holy word until the very end that will reign with Christ during the Millennium. We must endure until the end show let me show you want the end is.

1st Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stabblish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.Notice when the end is, when Jesus returns.

Also notice that it says Jesus will return with all His saints. This is impossible with a pretrib view. If Jesus raptures the righteous before the tribulation then return at the end of it with the raptured saints. The tribulational converts and ”Jewish saints” would not be with Him. Therefore He would not be returning with all His saints.

Although….if He catches up the righteous as he is returning with the dead in Christ as it says He will in 1st Thessalonians 4:14-17, to meet Him in the air, then come to earth with Him. He would be returning with all His saints. So it cant be BOTH ways..did Jesus MEAN what he said OR DIDN’T he??

1st Thessalonians 4:14-17
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them that sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (DEAD)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:(FIRST RESSURECTION)
17 Then (MEANING RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST RESSURECTION)we which are alive and remain (THOSE THAT ENDURED TO THE END AND SURVIVED)shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, (THE RAPTURE)and so we shall ever be with the Lord.
Verse 14 says that the dead in Christ are returning from heaven with Christ, and in verse 16 we see as He is returning their bodied rise from the grave to meet their souls, we know from 1st Corinthians 15:51-53 that this is when they receive their immortal bodies.

Then we which are alive and remain are caught up to meet them in the air. The post trib view is the only view that would allow 1st Thessalonians 3:13 to be true (which we know it is because it is the word of God) after we are caught up, we immediately return from the air to earth with Christ. Then and only then would He be returning with all His saints.

We will be raised at the last day John 6:39, 40, 44, and 54

John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus repeatedly declares that He will raise us up at the last day. Not seven years before, not three and a half years before, not one year, one month , or one day before, but at the last day.

At the last trump,

1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, (THEN..RIGHT AFTER THAT)and we shall be changed.(RAPTURED)
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

(YEP..THATS THE RAPTURE ALRIGHT..RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST RESURRECTION WHICH IS CLEARLY SEEN WITH NO SCRIPTURE TWISTING NEEDED…TO HAPPEN WHEN???..AT THE LORD RETURN ON THE LAAAAST DAY!!!)

Anyone can EASILY SEE that this is referring to the event known as the rapture. We see in the passage that it tell us when it will happen ”at the last trump”. We also see in Matthew 24:29-31 that there will be a trumpet sounded after the tribulation has ended.

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation (I CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW PRE TRIBBER CAN IGNORE THIS..PERHAPS IT THREATENS THEIR BOOK SALES TOO MUCH)of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect [(RAPTURE THEM)] from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

If the rapture is at the last trump, which we know it is because God’s word says it does. Then the rapture can not be before the trumpet sounded in Matthew 24, which is sounded after the tribulation is over.

Next I will show two more things #1) that the wicked are destroyed by fire at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ, and #2) that the rapture is on the same day that Christ return at the end of the Tribulation to destroy the wicked.

#1) The destruction of the wicked by fire at the post trib 2nd coming.

Matthew 3:7-12
7 But when he ( John the Baptist) saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, we have Abraham as our father: for I say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree that brings forth not good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost(FOR THE RIGHTEOUS), and with fire.(FOR THE WICKED)
12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

There is only three times in the New Testament that the phrase ”wrath to come” is mentioned. Once in 1st Thessalonians 1:10, once here in Matthew 3:7 and in Luke 3:7 which is telling the same story about John the Baptist warning the masses of the wrath that is to come. So what is the ”wrath to come” that he was warning them from? It is the purging of the floor mentioned in verse 12. It is the baptism of fire when the wicked will be overwhelmed by fire at the return of Jesus, it is the burning of the chaff which will occur when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming. The wrath to come that Jesus has delivered us from by his death and resurrection, is the destruction of the wicked by fire at the second coming of Christ.

1st Thessalonians 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The destruction of the wicked is not a prolonged seven years period, but it is sudden destruction that will come upon them when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming.

2nd Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

When Jesus returns He is coming in power and great glory, the tribes of the earth shall mourn and every one that is not in Christ including the anti christ will be destroyed immediately by the brightness of His coming.

Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.The wrath to come is the judgment of God were He will destroy all His adversaries with a fiery indignation, when Jesus returns, not the entire tribulation period.

2nd Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up.

This doesn’t sound like a pretrib event, there wouldn’t be anything left to live on earth for the next seven years. The day of the Lord is a post tribulational event. Where Jesus will destroy all with fire, but first he will resurrect the dead in Christ and catch away the living saints.

I have shown that the wrath is the fiery destruction of the wicked which occurs at the return of Christ. It is not the tribulation period itself. Next, I will give scripture that shows that the second coming, the resurrection of the just, the rapture of the living saints and the destruction of the wicked by fire happen all at once.

#2) The rapture is at the post rib 2nd coming on the same day Christ return to destroy the wicked.

Pretrib ”Theologians” boldly proclaim that when ever the second coming is mentioned, there is no mention of the church being raptured, and when ever the rapture is mentioned there is no mention of the destruction of the wicked. Well, I have four passages of scripture that will eliminate that myth once and for all. The first text I will use is Matthew 3:12, I will revisit the words of John the baptist.

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Notice that when Jesus comes to purge His floor, He first gathers the wheat and then burns the chaff. This is what will occur at the second coming. When Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation, He will resurrect the just, rapture the saints, and then burn the wicked with an unquenchable fire.

Matthew 24:37-41
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving into marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came and took them all away,[(IN OTHER WORKDS..KILLED THEM ALL SUDDENLY)] so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field one taken,[(KILLED..NOT RAPTURED)] and the other left.

41 Two woman shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken and the other left.
The flood came and took them away (DROWNED THEM ALL) when they were unaware, so will the coming of Christ be, but this next flood will be a flood of fire. At this point, at the post trib second coming when Jesus is returning to destroy the wicked is when the rapture takes place. Verse 40 and 41 declare THEN will one be taken (BURNT UP SUDDENLY BY FIRE)and the other left, not before the return of Christ, but at it.

Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.

(The very day Noah entered the ark the flood came and destroyed them all, once again it was not a seven year prolonged period of destruction but it was immediate, the very day the righteous were removed.)

28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

It very clear the SAME DAY Noah went on the ark the flood came and destroyed them all. The SAME DAY Lot was taken, out of Sodom fire and brimstone rain from heaven and destroyed them all. The text says this is exactly how it will be when Jesus returns. The very SAME DAY Jesus returns at His post trib second coming is the very SAME DAY we will be taken out or ” raptured ” and it is the very SAME DAY He will destroy the wicked. This will be confirmed in my next text 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10 as well.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

We receive our rest when Jesus is revealed with his mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God.

In other words we are raptured at the post trib second coming when Jesus returns to destroy the wicked with fire. Lets look at verse 7 and 8 again.

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

There is no question that this passage places the post trib second coming, the rapture of the saints, and the destruction of the wicked all at the very same time. The pretib ”Theologian” that claims the Bible never says as much, must of missed this passage. We cannot ignore God’s word, so I choose to ignore the pretrib ”Theologian”.

Lastly I will give a reference in Revelation 20:4-6 that tells us that the rapture is after the Tribulation (remember the resurrection of the just comes before rapture of the living saints). In Revelation 20:4-6 it shows us the the 1st resurrection the resurrection of the just is after the Tribulation because it include those that were martyred during the Tribulation.

Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

As CAN CLEARLY AND IRREFUTABLE CAN BE SEEN NOW…The first resurrection is after the tribulation, we know this because it includes the tribulational martyrs.

There can be no resurrection before the first resurrection, otherwise it would be a SECOND Resurrection..or a THIRD even, therefore there can not be a mass resurrection of the dead in Christ before the tribulation. Seeing that the first resurrection takes place at the end of the tribulation, the pretrib rapture along with the mid trib, and pre wrath rapture become biblically impossible. The only view that fits is that of a post trib rapture. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just and the rapture immediately proceeds it.

FINALLY, in Matthew 24 when Jesus was asked in verse 3 “what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?” (see, his second coming is at the end of the world), He goes on to say in verse 9 “then they shall deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.” (Additional scriptures can be found at the third link in the final section of this post “Additional Reading”)

So to summarize….

The first Resurrection happens at the LAST day..the very day Jesus returns to begin his reign and toast the evil ones at armageddon….yes???

The SECOND Resurrection happens at the end of the thousand years not long after satan is let loose again to lead his final rebellion..correct??

So…according to the bible…Jesus returns..gathers all who are his…the dead who LOVED him and God..followed by those who are still alive who love Him….and wipes out the antichrist at the end of the tribulation..FIRST Resurrection..

There are only TWO resurrections..a “First”..which is for the righteous..and a “Second” which is for the evil.

Source: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message3177075/pg1#56753933

So why would a loving God allow us to go through the great tribulation?

Romans 8:28 tells us “all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.” This is something God has been doing since day 1, and the reason he didn’t just get rid of the devil and fallen angels for the beginning. Not only was that the only way to create free moral agents who weren’t robots, who could CHOOSE to love God; God also knew that he could use the evil to strengthen his people, to build character, and ultimately to bring glory to his name. What volumes does it speak that his people would choose him over all the enticements and riches the world and the flesh have to offer?

But there’s more. The darker it gets, the brighter our lights will appear to shine, and thus greater impact we will have in our cultures.

Matthew 5:14-16

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.”
Even if we are persecuted, and even if we are tortured and killed, our testimonies, if carried out with grace and submission to God, will no doubt bring many souls to repentance and thus perhaps salvation. I mean what other religion, people, etc. are willing to lay down their lives for what they believe, cheerfully and without a fight?

No doubt God would give us the strength and grace to bare it (1 Corinthians 10:13), and not only that, we would be rewarded more gloriously in the kingdom for it!! (Hebrews 11:35)

Additional Reading

http://www.posttribpeople.com/Post-Tribulation-Belief.html

Hymn ‘It is Well With My Soul’ Teaches Post-trib

http://beforeitsnews.com/religion/2015/08/10-bible-verses-prove-there-is-no-secret-rapture-during-the-great-tribulation-2494316.html

http://tribulationcentral.com/guest/mc-hypocrisy.html

 

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3 thoughts on “The ‘Rapture’, Pre-trib or Post-trib?

  1. Just to add:

    Jesus himself said this to his disciples. John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
    Just before which festival did He say this..?
    What is the harvest, or when does it take place..?

    Matt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

    So the harvest is ‘THE END of the world’ and four months before the harvest you are talking about. Only one feast falls four months before the harvest of the Jews.. It is Pentecost..

    Then you will also understand Daniels 1260, 1290 and 1335 days.

    Pentecost – 1335 days (in one specific year) = 1 Tishri (Feast of trumpets = blow the trumpet sound the alarm the anti-christs rule starts) 1 Tishri + 1260 = 3 1/2 days after Purim = the days the antichrists rule ends (42 months), why 3 1/2 days after Purim.. because of the handing out of presents of the world, due to the fact the two witnesses were killed by him and then 3 1/2 days later God raises them up.. That will bring the end to the Great tribulation (for the Saints, but the mistery of God will be over), as for the elect sake the days are shortened.

    1 Tishri + 1290 days = the end of the 2300 days of Daniel (The regarding the sacrifices , start, taking away by the anti-christ and the trampling under foot by the anti-christ and his army – the gentiles 42 months and the cleansing of the sanctuary).

    Jesus in the crucifixion week said to the Jews that their house is left desolate and He wanted to gather them like a hen gathers her chicks.. and in

    Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

    That is after 2000 years he will revive them. That was said just before Passover, so that after 2 days (2000 years) the remnant can have one Passover to Jesus, to share in his body and in his blood. the 2300 days ends on the last day of Passover (including the Firstfruits) and thus the 144000 Jews (if it is a specific or a symbolic number, we will still see)

    REV 14: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    Then you can clearly see and understand the Firstfruits out of the Jews..
    And they will shout: Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord..
    (we will not see Him again until then)

    for we will see His sign and the we will see Him coming in the clouds..

    They are grafted back into the tree with all believers in Jesus, one tree, one nation, one body (Israel)

    Rom 11: 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 1 Thes 4: 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    After that day (the end of the 2300 days) the wrath of God starts and ends with Fire and Brimstone from heaven (The Day Jesus Returns Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.), as it was in the Days of Lot, the day they left (the believers in Jesus) Sodom and Gomorrah (isn’t Jerusalem spiritually called Sodom and Egypt?) it rained fire and brimstone from the sky.

    As Jesus was called out of Egypt so will it be for all believers to go to Him and when you read the

    First commandment it makes all sense Exodus 20: 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. We all waiting for the Commandments of God to be written into our hearts..
    On the day of Pentecost
    The start of Gods 7th day.
    And the year is 2029 AD

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    1. Thank you for your response, Marinus. It will be at least a couple days before I get a chance to sit down and mindfully and prayerfully read it, but you can expect a response from me upon doing as much, so do check back. I’m curious, are you a Hebrew, Jewish, Israelite? Maranatha -Bro Yew

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